Jeff Kent is a Hall-of-Famer, Barry Bonds & Roger Clemens are not Ep. 639 - 12.8.25

The Hall of Fame Contemporary Votes are in. And it was not a particularly sexy class as Jeff Kent is the newest Hall of Fame inductee. The Winter Meetings have begun and there's no Big Free Agent signings, no Juan Soto bombshells, but we might have a few coming up, including an interesting offer from the Pirates. It's this week in baseball.

and the contemporary votes are in. had a committee, we had a ballot where we could have had a lot of interesting things. And so I think we got what is perhaps the least interesting option overall, because even nobody getting in would have been more interesting than this, which is Jeff Kent is in, which no shade to Jeff Kent, but also shade to Jeff Kent. Well, I think you're right. think the committee is, you know, was made up of. So here's the committee. Let's just talk about who's there.

Fergie Jenkins, Hall of Famer, Jim Cat Hall of Famer, Juan Marischal Hall of Famer, Tony Perez, Ozzie Smith, Alan Dremel, Robin Yaut, all Hall of Famers. executives, Mark Adonacio from the Brewers, I think he was, Doug Melvin, former general manager and player, Artie Moreno, owner of the Angels, Kim Eng, former GM of the Marlins, Tony Reagan's, Terry Ryan, they're media historians, Steve Hurt, Tyler Kepner and Jason Stark each got- Good for them. So they couldn't report on it.

because they were actually voting on it, which is kind of interesting. So there were 16 guys, or 16 people. You have to have, appeared on 12 ballots. You get 75 % or more. And you each get three votes. So that's the important thing, you get three votes. You can pick three guys out of the lineup. And so because this committee put Bonds and Clemens on there, let's just get right to it, right? They put Bonds and Clemens on there knowing that this committee was likely not to approve those guys because last week I heard.

And they didn't. The thing that's bigger about it is that they didn't approve them. It's that bonds and Clemens and even a guy like Fernando Valenzuela and Gary Sheffield didn't receive the 25 percent of the votes that they needed. So they're not going to be eligible to be on this again until 2031. So no, no, they're not. They're right. They're not eligible to 2031. They only get one more shot. Right. And they don't get one more. Right. And they don't get in there. They're completely out. So this very much felt like a punt by the Contemporary Committee. It's a slapdown to me. Right. To me, it's a total slapdown.

And I think it was interesting last week. heard Tom Verducci on the leadoff spot on Sirius. He said that, yeah, basically, or maybe it was Tim Kirchhoek, who said, former players are harder on steroid era guys than the baseball writers were. That's it, right, the older players. Yes, yes. Here would be my hot take on the steroid guys. If you voted for Bud Selig to be in the Hall of Fame. Right.

You absolutely cannot vote no on any one of the steroid guys. You sound like A-Rod. No, I believe that because look, Bud Selig profited off of steroids in baseball up until the minute he didn't and turned around and became an anti-steroid crusader. And to act like he didn't know what was going on and didn't benefit from steroids in the game and then to turn around and be like, well, he gets to be in the Hall of Fame, but none of you guys do is just, it's the peak of hypocrisy. So let's, we'll talk about-

in a second because we should talk about he deserves it. He to be in there. He gets in there. Let's just talk about him. Some in some ways, I think the former Met former Met, he's not going to go in as a Met most likely probably going to go in as a giant. I don't see. I think the Contemporary Committee didn't do this as much for Jeff Kent as they did it for everybody else. Yeah. So that nobody else has to share the stage with Jeff Kent when he gets in the hall.

That's interesting. Now Kent was also one during the year to really look down upon all the performance enhancing German people. His own teammate. He also looked down on just about everybody. I think he would prefer to be called intense than dislikeable. I would describe him as a mercurial player and that feels like a generous description of what he's rumored and purported to be. mean there are very few guys that I've heard as universal

disdain for from former players is Jeff Gatt, which is just surprising for a guy who was a Hall of Fame talent. Well, he was an MVP in a year that you could have given it to Barry Bonds because at that time, Barry Bonds could have been the MVP every year. Right. It's the Otani situation at that point. And he hit 351 homers as a second baseman of his 377 career homers. That is the most all time for any second baseman. So if you go around the diamond and you think about who has the most home runs at each position, are they all Hall of Famers? And they aren't, but only because at first base is Albert Pujols. Who's just not in yet. And in left field is Barry Bonds. Who's just not in yet. Or not in, maybe never. Ever. You know, kind of thing. So I think it was a good homage to a guy that said, okay, we're gonna put the guys with the most home runs of this position in there. We value that as baseball. And defensively, I don't remember Kent being particularly, here's what I think about him.

He wasn't that bad defensively, it's what made my mind, right? So I looked it up and all that and you know, he's slightly below zero as a D-war for his career, which as a second baseman, you would tend to go down over time. Right. But he's 52 runs below average as a fielder. And that doesn't reflect itself in D-war. Right. And that's what also kind of kills me about Kent is that it's not like Kent is the de facto best.

Offensive second baseman of all time. There's a lot of guys you could put on that list that should be in the hall fame by the way, Lewidiker, Hello Right, right. So so I run into the issue with Kent where it's just like okay He was a very good offensive second baseman and not a very good defensive second baseman That's why I was always hard for me to put them all in the Hall of Fame Because if I'm just looking at lists of even guys on this contemporary committee

There are guys on this Contemporary Committee who I would say, well, they were definitely better baseball players than Jeff Kent. So is this a vote for Kent or is this a giant middle finger to Barry Bonds? Yes. And it's interesting because Kent, as much as they say, well, he helped Bonds when he was in the lineup, right? Because having another hitter like that is like, how about the other way around?

How about Jeff Kemp benefiting the fact that he Barry Bonds in the lineup? And the chances are they're gonna pitch to him a lot more than they're pitch to Barry Bonds. Look, wanna spread a conspiracy theory. You don't think it's interesting that Jeff Kemp's home run numbers sharply jumped when he showed up on the Balco team in San Francisco and then vanished the moment he left there? I mean, I'm just saying, everybody gets on Barry Bonds for not hitting home runs with pints, showing up in San Francisco, hitting a zillion home runs and then not doing anymore.

That happened to Jeff Kent too, but everybody's like, yeah, no, he had to have been clean. But like you, I have no problem at all with him being in the Hall of Fame. don't have a problem with Jeff Kent specifically being in the Hall of Fame. I have a problem with the other guys not being in the Hall of Fame because at the very least to me, if you're going to put in Jeff Kent in there, Bonds, Clemens, and Lew Whitaker should all be in the Hall of Fame. So it's like, and that's not even bringing up guys like-

Delgado and Mattingly and Dale Murphy who also all have arguments. think Fernando Valenzuela is hard to put in the Hall of Fame simply because he just does not have the breadth of career work. There's an honor in the Hall of Fame for Fernando Valenzuela. I'm not sure exactly what it is. It doesn't have to be Hall of Famer. It's hard for me to put him in the position as a Hall of Famer because there's an element to career length which is something Kent has that you can never give to Fernando.

Yeah, yeah. so when I'm going to write about this, I mean, I think about it and I'm not the only one to feel this way. I think I read Ken Rosenthal feels the same way as I'm going to tell you I do. And that is obviously Bonds and Clemens, you know, were accused of PED usage before there was a testing program in place in 2004. OK, so Bonds played after that, you know, Clemens did not. really did. a couple of seasons after that. His last season was 2007, but he was never tested positive after the program was in place.

people will say, well, he stopped doing it by then. The point is, that to me, if he was never actually picked up doing this, as opposed to, and I hate to say this, it's gonna hurt me to say this, Manny Ramirez, who I'm in favor of hall of fame-wise, but you wanna draw the line there and say Manny came up positive after the- Multiple times. Multiple times. You wanna ding him for that and say he doesn't get in, I'm okay with that. Yeah. I'm totally okay with anybody who basically came up like Robinson Canoe, darn hall of famer.

until he's not. And so that's why you can't put a guy like that in there if you feel the way I know I could I could go against that but I totally get the but saying that bonds and Clemens shouldn't be in there just because yeah we knew they did it like like okay. But they're just jealous because bonds and Clemens were better than yeah like it feels bad to say about a guy like one Marischal but like.

Let's be honest, if I'm looking at their two careers and you ask me who you want on the mound in the game, I'm picking Clemens. Yeah. And that has to eat Marischal up on some level. That's saying something. Right. One hell of a pitch. Right. But I'm saying if you're a position player and you're sitting there going, man, I like it's got to eat away at you on some. It's probably even more with a guy like Bonds where you go. You didn't need to do you are better than me without the steroids. I would bother them. Right. Right. He was better. There wasn't a program in place to test or and people. I've said it a million times.

people were doing all kinds of stuff for so many years in baseball, we all know if there's an edge to be gotten, they're going to try to get that And what bugs me is we all look the other way when we talk about Willie Mays back in the day where he was talking about popping speed in the locker room and doing all those stuff in the uppers that they were taking the 50s and we all kind of sit around and go, haha. It was the red juice of Willie Mays, the red juice in his locker

They were like, ha ha ha, this is so cute. They were so dedicated to winning back in the day. then it's like, the steroid guys, no, those guys are beyond the pale. How dare they? Willie Mays is treated as like a cute little thing he did, even though they were effectively the exact same thing. It just wasn't illegal then either. nobody. But nobody nobody talks about how Willie Mays disgraced the game by taking uppers before it. And I always like to read the quotes of some of the Hall Famers, you know, and I think I remember Bob Gibson, I mentioned he said this.

And when somebody on the committee right now, might've been Marischal, I don't know or Jim Cot that I wouldn't have done it had it been available to me when I was playing. I really like that take. That's a really reasonable not a holier than the, I don't know. I wanna be complete. When Andy Pettit did it, and I truly believe that Pettit, who tested positive before the program was in place, but still is impugned and his case is debatable on merit, not necessarily- Right, he's got the bigger issue of it being both merit and steroids.

get back to pitch and he used the steroid so he could work out harder to get back faster. Man, how do you fault a guy for wanting to do that? I don't fault him, but the thing, the way I approach a steroid use is I can't look into the reason why they used it because then it gets way too murky. So unfortunately for Pettit...

He gets dinged with the same brush that a guy like Manny gets dinged with who was probably not using it to get back and just using it. Everybody's doing it. Right. Right. And so it's just like I look at it going like, OK, those are equivalent because I can't say, well, well, but it's reason for using it is more justified. That's fair. And the other guys who didn't get voted in, you mentioned Valenzuela, know, Carlos Delgado, I heard him on the that seems like an inevitability. know, but nice to hear Carlos, you know, obviously finished his career with the Mets.

and had 473 home runs, had a career 159 ops. The guy was a terrific baseball player, a below average fielder, which hurts his chance to me more than anything else. Now, he did play when guys who were accused of PEDs won MVPs when he finished second. So you could argue that, gee, had he won those MVPs and those guys were all of a sudden, maybe he's, but I felt like.

He was it was nice that he was on there. I didn't think he was going to make it and he didn't. But he gets to live another day. I do think it's interesting that I feel like they also had to put in Kent. They had to put in somebody because this is a Hall of Fame ballot because the writers and people that are voting on the Hall of Fame are starting to put out their ballots as they send them in. This is a year where we very, very possible could have no Hall of Fame inductees. So if you didn't put in Kent through the Contemporary Committee, you'd have a year with nobody getting in, which you know they don't want.

because that's a whole year you get to not have the pomp and circumstance at the Hall of Fame. You want to do that every year for at least one person. But you think about 16 guys, they they debate this stuff in the room. can imagine these 16 people having this conversation and settling on Jeff Kent. I just wonder how that conversation went right. Like no never on these guys. So just take them out. We got to put inside. I feel like we got to put in somebody came up at some point. We're now that we're now down to OK, so who do you want of the guys left over?

We thought, I thought I should say Dale Murphy. I felt like there was a groundswell of support for Dale Murphy, sort of like. But that's not enough. People feeling bad for you isn't going to be enough. One more home run. But I just, you know, I just don't think they got that wrong. But I do think that they got it wrong when it comes to the guys who to us are clear Hall of Famers. Like I said, good on Jeff Kent. Will he be alone in Cooperstown? That's an interesting point.

I think Carlos Beltran might end up in the same place as Kent in that we gotta vote somebody in. We don't wanna hear where we don't put nobody in. But it would be ironic that Beltran, who's been deemed not for his play, but for his behavior and conduct in 2017, would be the guy to get in and Kent, would be a very interesting justification. Right, a guy that's really well-liked.

and Jeff Kett. And both have played for the Astros and the Giants. That's weird too. That is weird. Anyway, so we'll talk about the actual vote for the Hall of Fame and hopefully we'll be able to get Daniel Brown to join Right, the votes are starting to come in now so we'll start getting a better picture of where people are probably in a couple weeks. Probably by January we'll start having an idea of... We'll get the Hall of Fame tracker going soon and they get the daily updates and all that stuff and I'd look at that stuff way too much.

Anyway, so the winter meetings are going on right now, right? And we did not get a winter meeting surprise to start this year. Yeah, last year kicked off with such a bombshell with the Soto signing as Metfans dropping on Sunday night last year. So we were waiting. I was waiting last night. It was going to happen, right? Right. And nothing's happened. I mean, no, the Dodgers are re-signing Miguel Rojas.

So no, which of Cedric Mullins to the Rays? That's not getting your needle moving. You know, I like that player and just he was it was so bad with the Mets. It was like Ryan Helsley. You just can't say anything, but it was bad. Yeah. Anyway, I think, you know, the the three players that are probably most likely to go first, I'm thinking are going to be Bellinger, Schwab and Kyle Tucker. Those are sort of the big name in Framber. Framber would be the other guy.

Alonso is in there too. Alonso, I don't put in the same tier as those guys. No, no, I don't. But I think he's a guy that could go, you know, at any time. Somebody wants to make a splash. So of those three guys, the question was asked, you know, say, who do you think goes first? Like, is there a domino effect here? Schorber is going to go first. He's the biggest name on the market. People are looking to sign him and make a splash. And I think he wants to be done early. Yeah. And Tucker and Bellinger benefit from a bidding war more than he does. I just think that somebody is going to pay.

Well, because they're going to want this. think he could actually end up sitting there for a lot. Last night. Wait. Last night, there was a report, a rumor that a certain team made a hundred million dollar plus offer to Kyle Schwab. That being the Pittsburgh Pirate, like I was saying, I was talking about that. We talked about that. How about they sign both Schwab and talk about it? clearly they offered a more than a hundred million dollar contract to Schwab. So clearly the pirates are out there looking to spend money this offseason.

So that's a very, that is a place I could want If I'm Paul Skeens, I'm feeling just a little better. Right, and that's why they're doing this. It would not surprise me to see a guy like Pete end up in Pittsburgh. We, know, that Schwaber is from Ohio. And so that brings the Reds into play. And just imagine the salivation that would take place with Kyle Schwaber batting in. and a lot of them needed that. In that park.

So, and the Reds really need that, right. They went and re-signed their closer at Emilio Pagan, but that wasn't their issue last year, was their very inconsistent offense, which is surprising, because I thought it was going be so good before this season. I've said it before, I really like their players. Why isn't it, you know, even better than it Because when you made the playoffs, so they made progress. Right, they made the playoffs, but that has to be one of the most fearic-

Playoff runs that we've ever seen to make the playoffs to just just get waxed in two games by the Dodgers and having Kyle Schwab on that team this year against the Dodgers. Would that have made the difference and made the Reds? It would have given formidable opponents. I don't know. I want to say yes purely because it felt like the Reds lost their swagger in those games so quickly. It felt like there was almost pitching can do that. But it felt like there was a level of like, we're not ready for this stage yet from the rain.

from the Reds last year. to the playoffs. We got to the playoffs. Right. You don't have that sort of attitude when Kyle Schorber is on your team. He's not going to let you have that attitude. He's to be there to be like, no, we're here to win. That's good. And so I think, you know, whether it's the Pirates or the Reds, I think, you know, I think more likely he's going to go with the Phillies than anyplace else. I just can't see them.

not running this back another time. only reason he doesn't go to the Phillies is somebody backs up a brink truck. And he's just like, I don't see a reason not to take a gigantic contract for my last one. I saw a quote attributed to Andrew Friedman, the Dodgers guy. If you're always rational about every free agent, you'll finish third on every free agent. That's really good. And I think it's true. There has to be a level of you have to fall in love with a guy and be like, OK, we want this guy so bad. We're willing to pay a little bit more than we think we should for him.

Right, right, you have to go beyond so if you're David Stearns of the Mets, I don't like to give pitchers long-term contracts.

But the right pitcher, you'll give the long term contract. The only way you're going to get a guy like Framber Valdez is to give him a contract you don't want to. Exactly. And you know, because you could sign a guy like Cody Ponce goes to the Blue Jays, goes 17-1 with the KBO and signs a three year, $30 million contract with the Rays. And most fans are going, Cody who? Right now, if you look at the Jays are probably hoping, OK, can we capture that one year Feddy magic where Eric Feddy, the first year he came in from the KBO was great. And then it didn't last quite the same way. I love that the

the Jays are doing this, because you almost could have gone, I think we were talking about them recently going, they have enough pitching. mean, they got Barrios coming back and they'll get it. But get more pitching. more pitching because I think Gausman is going to come up hard one year or somebody's going come up hard one year. There has to be the little voice in your head saying, you know, we got a miracle run from guys like Bassett and Scherzer this postseason. I don't know. We can't go in there depending that they're just going to replicate that next year. And your favorite pitcher, you savage, you know, can he, you know.

really do it a whole season. One thing to say he was amazing as he was. We've seen guys have runs like that. know going for you know 30 starts or so. Nolan McLean has the exact same questions about him last you know going into next season. He had an unbelievable streak there he looked amazing but it's a very different thing when okay day one you're up in the majors do it for a season. And I think I think the Jays you know people think that some reason there's no way Bichette's going back there.

that that's such a sure thing. I think he could go back there. think I think he could go back there. But I think Bushett is probably one of the last offseason, one of the last pieces to move this offseason because I think we're set the market first. Right. He's got to figure out what he can get because it's not like there's a lot of other specifically infielders on this market. There's not another big name infielder that. So so he's in a unique position. Kim is not, you know, Bo Bushett in a totally different category than Hassan Kim. And so.

If you're a team that's looking to make a play on a middle infielder, like the Blue Jays, like the Braves, you might be thinking like, okay, wait a second. We need to get this done because when you're stuck holding the bag with a consolation prize in this case, it's not going to feel. It's not like if you lose out on the Schwerber sweepstakes and you go and sign Kyle Tucker.

You could probably even talk yourself into how that's a better thing for your team. I don't think you could talk yourself into believing Hassan came as a better thing for your team than Bo Bichette. No, no, I think only, well, we're defensively oriented, you know, he's a really good defender. Right. And, you know, closer wise, you know, we don't have much out in the market, but you've got big names on the market. the Mets went and signed Devin Williams. Now, so that puts Edwin Diaz as sort of the premier reliever arm on the market. With Suarez as a 1B. 1B, right. I think...

Diaz just because of name recognition is much more so the one a guy. I mean, I think there's probably a lot of advanced stats, which are Suarez is every bit as good as that. that's a good point. And so what I noticed last week, because he's a draft Diaz is attached to draft pick compensation as an age 32 closer, which makes it a difficult pill to swallow for everyone other than the Mets. So to give them at the draft pick this item. So it's interesting. And the Mets are leveraging that right. So they sign Williams. So maybe we'll make it when you think about that. Maybe he'll take four years instead of five.

you know, because he knows the market isn't there. So I think that that's an interesting thing and I think the Mets somehow, I think they feel that they're gonna get them back. I think the Mets are thinking, we're either gonna get one of Diaz or Suarez. We don't know which one, but we're gonna sign two of them this Yeah, I don't think Pete Fairbanks, who's also out there, is quite of the same. But Pete Fairbanks is the kind of guy that could really benefit because if all of sudden Diaz and Suarez come off the market really quick. And those teams that need closers. And then Pete Fairbanks is like, hey everybody, I'm the only guy that's left.

I've said that before the Tigers need need to sign more than just having will vest as the as the end of the game. Well, he was very good. You need another like lights out reliever, you know, in Detroit, because I think that team has a chance to go far this year as well. Let's see. I wanted to talk about a couple of things happening. We've got a the draft for the six worst teams, right? The free the well, the top six are picking in the amateur draft in the amateur draft. So.

you know, that that is a not much of a chance for them. Our team, the Mets to get ahead that part of that one percent. Right. Because they're not they're not team. And then on on Wednesday, we've got the rule five draft. Right. The rule five draft. It's interesting because we always with such a romantic thing, I think, in fans like, he was a rule five player and he came up all the way and made it. Not that many of them know. There's not that many of them. And basically, if you pick a rule five guy and it goes in reverse order of finish. Right. A, there has to be a spot.

on your 40 man roster for this player, okay? And that player has to stay on the roster the whole season. If you don't keep him on the roster, he has to be offered back on waivers to the team that let him go for $50,000. So you really, know, and that means you're paying whatever salary you paid him minus $50,000.

So not a very good situation. so the Mets are in a position, especially with 39 roster spots, where unless they absolutely love a guy, I don't think they're taking anybody. I five players are normally for teams that are on the way up trying to make some headway. You're hoping to kind have a set 40 man roster. Right, snatch a guy off the rule five thing, hoping that, OK, other team didn't value him. Let me get some bonus on this one. And so my friend Kelly Franco is in Orlando this week for the winter meetings.

She's going to be doing some live reporting from there and she is got media credentials, which I think is pretty cool. So I was joking with her last week that she's crossed the Rubicon because she is now a media person. Your media personnel, get media badges. You and I, we're still the fans doing this. And I guess I guess we could cut it off with the one big trade that sort of happened over the weekend, which was a trade with the Pittsburgh Pirates trading Johan Ovido to the Red Sox in a wild five player trade involving a bunch of guys I've never heard of. Right, Oviedo is the only player, he came out of the Cardinals, you know, was good for the Cardinals. And, know, nice pitcher, but that's the thing, so it's been too quiet ever since we kind of had, you know, the Devin Williams big thing is they get Junxton Garcia, who's a, you know, very valued prospect as a hitter. And so as the Pirates, the storyline, you want to start building yourself is like, this is a big part of it. We get this guy, he comes up this year, he has a major season.

We go out and we sign Schwaber and Pete Alonzo and all of a sudden, hey everybody, the Pittsburgh Spirits have just announced themselves in the NL Central. That sounds like a dream off season though. Well, next week we're gonna just talk about the winter meetings and hopefully all the big deals. We expect a lot of things to go down this week. expect at least one big free agent signing this week. Oh, I hope there's gonna be more of us. It's gonna be one hell of a boring week for those people. We're also gonna run into a really, because it's gonna then die.

that's what always happens is that as we get closer to Christmas all the deals kind of start drying up until we get past the New Year's so if we don't see anything in the next like a 10 or so days we might not see anything big until after New Year's Day. Yeah I think Yamai is gonna sign because I think he his posting period ends like an early January so he's on a limited time frame before you know he basically will be you know not able to it's be interesting because teams like the Giants were in the Mets were rumored to be reaching out to frame Rivaldez but I feel like when you reach out to a my first he's gonna be a

lot cheaper than Framber. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. I think it's a chance when you're take a little bit older pitcher. He's late 20s, you know, and the Mets in particular, have been linked to him after Kodai Singa. They might be a little gun shy. We'll have to see if they do that. And Singa, you know, says he wants to stay a Met, and I think the Mets...

might want to change the module by trading him, I just don't know what kind of a trade partner. don't think they're going to get a lot from him right now. Well, enjoy the meetings, right? Enjoy the news. I hope it's going to be exciting. Enjoy an exciting free agent offseason. We'll see you next Wednesday or next Sunday.